[00:00:00] Daryl Cagle: Hey, everybody, I'm Daryl Cagle, and this is the CagleCast, where we're all about editorial cartoons, and we've got three great editorial cartoonists joining us, Ed Wexler, Taylor Jones, and Rick McKee, and we're going to start off with Rick McKee. Rick, this cartoon is just absolutely great. Today, we're doing, Our favorite Trump cartoons.

[00:00:19] Daryl Cagle: These are the cartoons that all of you picked out of all of your Trumps that you Like the best and I think this is a great one. And we are sick of these two leftovers 

[00:00:28] Rick McKee: Yeah, I appreciate it. This one, uh was actually from the last Election cycle, but just run it again. 

[00:00:34] Daryl Cagle: I think it still works Yeah, y'all have to upload it again to run it again 

[00:00:38] Taylor Jones: leftover cartoons for leftover times Can I 

[00:00:40] Daryl Cagle: do that?

[00:00:41] Daryl Cagle: Yeah, Still works. It's good. This is Ed Wexler. Ed was a creative director at Disney for 30 years. He was a regular cartoonist for U. S. News and World Report. He drew the star studded caricature covers for the Hollywood Reporter's Emmy and Academy Awards issues for many years. And he was nominated for an Emmy, and it's great to have you here, Ed.

[00:01:03] Daryl Cagle: This is a wonderful Trump cartoon. Trump is thinking about Mount Rushmore, which has images of Trump's carved into it. And he says, I've done more for this country than all those guys combined. And I think that's a wonderful cartoon. Ed, 

[00:01:17] Taylor Jones: you're my favorite, uh, Trump caricaturist and you're really great with his posture always.

[00:01:22] Rick McKee: Well, you guys are, uh, you 

[00:01:23] Daryl Cagle: guys are both, like, 

[00:01:24] Rick McKee: top notch caricaturists. I feel like the 

[00:01:26] Daryl Cagle: odd man out here. Nah, you're top notch too, Rick. Third cartoonist here is Taylor Jones with Homo Trumpus Disgustus. . I think this is very funny. I don't think newspapers will print poop cartoons, though. 

[00:01:39] Rick McKee: That's great. That's great, Taylor. Thanks. You know what?

[00:01:42] Rick McKee: It's really funny. I just, I just took it in. 

[00:01:46] Daryl Cagle: Taylor Jones 

[00:01:47] Daryl Cagle: is a brilliant caricaturist for the Hoover Digest at Stanford University. He was the staff cartoonist for many years at El Nuevo Día newspaper in Puerto Rico. And he drew for many years for U.

[00:01:57] Daryl Cagle: S. News and World Report magazine, and he's won a ton of awards. Taylor! 

[00:02:01] Taylor Jones: You're laying it on pretty thick. But, you know, the trouble with Trump for me is that an awful lot of the work I've done with Trump has been scatological because that's. That's just what I think of him and, I can't get away from it.

[00:02:13] Taylor Jones: And I've probably done a number of cartoons that people won't publish. 

[00:02:16] Daryl Cagle: I did notice that Taylor , 

[00:02:19] Taylor Jones: I think I'm the lost loss leader. Daryl , 

[00:02:23] Daryl Cagle: you're the cartoonist that all the other cartoonists support so, Rick! Yes, you were the cartoonist for decades for the Augusta Chronicle in Georgia. You draw the comic strip Pluggers and we have syndicated your editorial cartoons for 20 years. Wow. Delighted to have you here. It's so good to be here. Thanks for having me.

[00:02:43] Daryl Cagle: We're gonna be looking at a bunch of your cartoons first, and here you've got Trump on the toilet with constitution toilet paper. Trump says everybody knows the first anniversary is the paper anniversary. So true. Believe me, first anniversary of January 6th. this is a great cartoon, but I don't think newspapers print sitting on the toilet cartoons.

[00:03:03] Rick McKee: Yeah, I had a feeling when I drew it, that probably wasn't going to work. but, uh, one of the things that I have so much fun when I draw Trump is, and you know, it's becoming less and less fun as the years go by, but, um, he's not, he's not only a fun. It's hard for a person to draw visually, but his speech patterns and the way he talks are so funny, and I try my best to try to copy that and exaggerate that, but it's hard to exaggerate Trump on so many levels.

[00:03:30] Taylor Jones: Rick, have you noticed that whenever Trump speaks, Of course, as you said, he likes to say everybody says, but he tends to escalate. He'll go from saying a lot of people saying everybody's saying he likes to do that. It escalates his, um, yeah, absolutely.

[00:03:42] Daryl Cagle: Everybody says so the best, the best people say so, you know, everybody knows it. 

[00:03:46] Rick McKee: People are saying, 

[00:03:47] Daryl Cagle: So Trump is a dumpster fire. You have him drawn in a. burning dumpster, Trump force number two. And he says, you'll never take me alive. Copper as the Manhattan DA is chasing him with an indictment. Good looking cartoon.

[00:04:01] Daryl Cagle: I like the composition. 

[00:04:02] Rick McKee: Well, I appreciate it. This was sort of a, uh, when he lost the election, I had him riding off into the sunset in a flaming 

[00:04:07] Daryl Cagle: dumpster. 

[00:04:08] Rick McKee: So I thought I would revisit that there. No, there it is. Oh, that's great. It's very funny. 

[00:04:13] Daryl Cagle: That's a wonderful cartoon, except he did not disappear into the sunset.

[00:04:16] Daryl Cagle: No, he did not. 

[00:04:17] Rick McKee: What a great, simple, beautiful, easy to read cartoon. Yeah. Uh, thanks, Ed. I 

appreciate 

[00:04:22] Daryl Cagle: it. That is great. cartoonists like the cartoons that don't have words, they' re are favorites. Uh, here you have, drowning Republican elephant handcuffed to Trump, who is dragging him down to further drown.

[00:04:37] Daryl Cagle: Um, wonderful cartoon. I notice on all of your cartoons, the small hands on Trump, 

[00:04:43] Rick McKee: I guess I think this is started in Spy Magazine back in the 1980s. Somebody made the

[00:04:48] Daryl Cagle: oh really? 

[00:04:49] Rick McKee: Yeah, he had small hands and it made him so angry.

[00:04:52] Rick McKee: And uh, so it kind of became a thing Uh, in the last election, so, you know, I think, they called him a 

[00:04:58] Daryl Cagle: small fingered Bulgarian or something like that. Well, I thought, I thought it was a sexual reference from, uh... It is. That's how I 

[00:05:06] Rick McKee: first... It's faux. I think it's faux. No, the...

[00:05:09] Taylor Jones: Rick is right. Uh, suddenly I'm forgetting the fellow's name, writing for Spy Magazine.

[00:05:13] Taylor Jones: He, uh, Kurt Anderson. Yeah. That's who, that's who wrote it. 

[00:05:16] Rick McKee: He started it. He started the whole thing. 

[00:05:18] Daryl Cagle: So it's not, it's not Marco Rubio. 

[00:05:20] Rick McKee: Uh, they sort of picked up on it, but Marco Rubio did not start it, it's sort of always been a thing, and so, I latched on to it because, you know, anything that annoys somebody, or especially Trump, you try to emphasize, and some people have accused me of making his hands smaller and smaller as I, as I go along. Did you say Marco Rubio? 

[00:05:39] Daryl Cagle: Yeah, he, he brought, he brought it up in the debate. Okay, so here's a lovely Christmas cartoon. We know how editors love Christmas cartoons. And you have, uh, the, Trump offering his butt for the, Republican elephant to kiss under the mistletoe.

[00:05:55] Daryl Cagle: Um, now I know. All of us would prefer to draw this cartoon with his pants down. And we just can't do that, and I know that that was a difficult sacrifice for you. 

[00:06:08] Rick McKee: Yes. Yes it was, but I felt like, like you say, editors might run this one more if he did not have that. And I think this one ended up being fairly well reprinted.

[00:06:18] Daryl Cagle: That's very good! Um, I wouldn't have been able to guess whether this would be well reprinted. 

[00:06:24] Taylor Jones: The other thing about Trump, the small hands, long tie. 

[00:06:27] Rick McKee: That's right. Well, that's, uh, slimming. That's what he says. Yeah, 

[00:06:30] Taylor Jones: I didn't know that. Oh, 

[00:06:31] Daryl Cagle: here's your Groundhog Day cartoon. Trump is waking up in the Groundhog Day position with the big alarm clock.

[00:06:39] Daryl Cagle: And he says, Oh, no, not again. And the alarm clock says, Then put your little hand in mine. little hands. 

[00:06:46] Rick McKee: Yeah, so this appeared on on Groundhog Day, during his second impeachment. And I always try to strive to try to avoid the cliches and, the typical groundhog. And I don't 

[00:06:56] Daryl Cagle: always do that, but I 

[00:06:58] Rick McKee: thought this would be a good opportunity.

[00:06:59] Rick McKee: to do something a 

[00:06:59] Daryl Cagle: little different, uh, for Groundhog Day. So this was a Groundhog Day cartoon? Yeah, that was, that literally was a Groundhog Day cartoon. Oh, that's fun! So here you have his master's voice, and the RCA Victor logo, and the Victrola says, Go to the Capitol, and the MAGA guy is looking very Neanderthal, and has, some wonderful tattoos.

[00:07:20] Daryl Cagle: I love the way you put tattoos on people. 

[00:07:22] Rick McKee: Oh, thanks. This one, was, January 

[00:07:26] Daryl Cagle: 7th cartoon. Oh, I should have mentioned that he's in dog position. Yes, he's in, 

[00:07:30] Rick McKee: he's in the dog position. And this came out day after the 

[00:07:36] Daryl Cagle: Well, that's great, Day After Capital Riot. How did this cartoon do? I think it did pretty well.

[00:07:40] Taylor Jones: Great cartoon, Rick. Great 

[00:07:42] Rick McKee: drawing. 

[00:07:42] Daryl Cagle: Thank you, Taylor. I appreciate it.

[00:07:43] Daryl Cagle: You know, we just had a Left vs. Right podcast where the cartoonists were just outraged by the depictions of MAGA people as being stupid. You know, I like to draw them as stupid too 

[00:07:55] Rick McKee: Well, I caught that podcast and I think you did a pretty good job of showing how that particular cartoonist Liked to do the same thing for the other 

[00:08:03] Daryl Cagle: side.

[00:08:03] Daryl Cagle: So it was 

[00:08:04] Rick McKee: a little disingenuous.

[00:08:05] Daryl Cagle: So here we have Fulton county jail arresting trump and a little angel McCain and Angel McCain says, I like people who weren't captured. you know, we're trying to, get, high school history and social studies teachers to use our podcast when they teach about editorial cartoons. And this probably requires some explanation for the high school kids.

[00:08:27] Daryl Cagle: Yeah, it's true. This one, uh, it's a 

[00:08:29] Rick McKee: little bit of a throwback to the original campaign where Trump said that about, John McCain, who was critical of him, and John McCain had been captured during Vietnam, and so it was a big brouhaha when Trump said that about, you know, a war hero, John McCain, and that's another thing I like to do is to use people's words exactly as they say them, against them, and I felt like this was an opportunity to do that for John McCain, who has since passed away, to sort of come back and use, use Trump's exact words that he said, uh, against him. 

[00:09:04] Daryl Cagle: here you've got the Presidential Portrait Gallery. Father of our country, George Washington. Freed the slaves, Abe Lincoln. And the stupid MAGA guy says, The greatest president in history. On the Trump photo, which is his mug shot in striped felon garb. Indicted on 37 federal charges under the Espionage Act.

[00:09:26] Daryl Cagle: I think this is great. 

[00:09:28] Taylor Jones: I've got a neighbor who looks like that guy. 

[00:09:32] Rick McKee: I appreciate it. And the thing that kills me is that that's actually what these Trump supporters say. You know, he's the greatest president in history, and I like him because he never tells a lie. And I'm like, are we talking about the same guy here?

[00:09:47] Rick McKee: It's just astounding. 

[00:09:49] Daryl Cagle: Rick. This is a nice one. You've got Trump in prison threatened by a big Prisoner who's got it Wonderful tattoo. And Trump says, What is that? Prisoner says a non disclosure agreement. Trump is famous for his non disclosure agreements. 

[00:10:05] Ed Wexler: Rick, 

[00:10:05] Ed Wexler: you're so great at telling a story in the most simple, best way.

[00:10:10] Ed Wexler: There's not one element in this cartoon that doesn't help your story. It's great.

[00:10:14] Rick McKee: I appreciate that, Ed. I appreciate that. Um, yeah, this one, you know, this one got a little bit of blowback online. Some people thought it was across the line and it was a little suggestive. Ultimately, I don't care.

[00:10:31] Daryl Cagle: Okay. Here you have Trump, behind the stupid mega guy. Who's got wonderful tattoos. And Trump says, they're not coming after me. They're coming after you. And I'm just standing in their way.

[00:10:42] Rick McKee: Another example, just using his words, you know, that he's, that he says, 

[00:10:47] Ed Wexler: what a Mussolini kind of. Thing to do, you know, he's right.

[00:10:52] Rick McKee: Makes me crazy when he does that. Yeah,

[00:10:54] Daryl Cagle: he does have non partisan tattoos. 

[00:10:58] Rick McKee: Yeah, he does. I didn't, I didn't put any partisan tattoos on him this time. I'm sorry, Taylor. I 

[00:11:02] Taylor Jones: interrupted you. That's okay. I'm usually interrupting everybody else, you know, seeing Trump on the podium and he's at a rally.

[00:11:07] Taylor Jones: He often actually kind of apes Mussolini in the way he Yeah, exactly. Very good, Ed. And the chest up. 

[00:11:16] Daryl Cagle: Yeah. So here you've got Republican elephant talking to the Election 24 dog and he says, "What's the matter boy? Did Timmy fall in the well?" Under the shadow of Trump? And, uh you know, this is one of those cartoons that you need to explain to the high school kids too.

[00:11:34] Rick McKee: Yes, that's true. This, goes back probably a reference, a pop culture reference that goes back to Lassie, which is a show that's way too old 

[00:11:42] Daryl Cagle: for these kids, but, um, I used to watch Lassie on Sunday nights, but, I think Ed and I are the only ones who might have done that. Oh, Taylor did that. I'm, I'm old.

[00:11:51] Taylor Jones: I'm the oldest one here. Yeah, you're older. I remember Gramps and his truck. and Timmy always had to, he was, his mother always made him finish drinking his milk before he got up and leave the table. His mother 

[00:12:00] Daryl Cagle: was the mother on Lost in Space, too.

[00:12:02] Daryl Cagle: That's right, June Lockhart. Oh, wow. Wow, you are older than us. 

[00:12:07] Rick McKee: Lassie was the rescue dog. Lassie was the smartest, you know, person on the show. The dog would always come tell, you know, when Timmy, Fell down the Well. Is there 

[00:12:15] Daryl Cagle: trouble, 

[00:12:16] Taylor Jones: girl? Yeah. 

[00:12:17] Rick McKee: Yeah. So that indicates trouble

[00:12:19] Daryl Cagle: That's why editorial cartoons are in newspapers for the old folks. That's right. 

[00:12:24] Taylor Jones: in fact. Dar, you could have a whole podcast. I just. The older cartoon is just talking about TV reference. 

[00:12:29] Daryl Cagle: Well, won't that be good for us? Okay. So, uh, here you've got Trump with his tiny hands in handcuffs writing his, homework paper How I Spent My Summer.

[00:12:41] Daryl Cagle: You know how he spent his summer was getting arrested and putting in the handcuffs and I think that's a great cartoon. I 

[00:12:46] Rick McKee: This was a very, very recent one. and it was just sort of trying to iconically show, his historic four indictments. 

[00:12:53] Ed Wexler: It's seasonal. 

[00:12:54] Rick McKee: Yeah, it's seasonal.

[00:12:55] Daryl Cagle: This is a good looking cartoon that I debated putting in here because of Trump's butt.

[00:13:00] Daryl Cagle: it's a Emperor's Got No Clothes cartoon. And you've got the MAGA guys, all looking stupid in their own way. listening to the kids say, Hey, the Emperor's got... And they say, shut up, kid. Because, they don't even look at those things. They're invisible to them. 

[00:13:16] Rick McKee: Right. 

[00:13:16] Taylor Jones: Rick, I like how you've got the one text balloon, speech balloon over the other.

[00:13:19] Taylor Jones: I like that. You know, Daryl, it seems to me that, newspapers are remaining, the most squeamish of all. Because when you think of Trump's language, and more and more he's starting to use the BS word when he talks. And, I'm sure he's going to drop an F bomb sooner or later.

[00:13:34] Taylor Jones: I think language has coarsened generally, and with the great help from Trump in the last number of years, really for decades, but Trump's really accelerated that. And it just seems like, oh my god, newspapers, you gotta be careful, you can't even make any kind of reference to, those sort of words or acts.

[00:13:49] Taylor Jones: And that they're doing it more and more. Right now, the Republicans are championing that song that, uh, Richmond, North of Richmond, Anthony Oliver. Or Oliver Anthony and, that's full of swear words, but newspapers. You know, editors, watch out.

[00:14:02] Daryl Cagle: I also take out the swear words on this podcast. we want high school students to watch this podcast and get a sense of the cartoonists behind the cartoons. the number one email I get is, Dear Mr. Cagle, please explain the cartoon to me. My paper is due tomorrow. that's what we're doing.

[00:14:19] Daryl Cagle: We're explaining the cartoons to you. That's what, that's what we're here for. So we're moving on to you now, Taylor. I have a picture of my wall in my living room. I have two lovely Taylor drawings on my wall. look at that nice vulture that Steve Saks sculpted. 

[00:14:35] Rick McKee: I recognized it 

[00:14:37] Daryl Cagle: immediately.

[00:14:38] Daryl Cagle: Well, he told me he wanted me to hang that above my desk. To remind myself of my deadlines and I don't do that. But here i've got a taylor trump on my wall below. That is a civil war General Sherman and General Grant and uh, Robert E. Lee I think they're both wonderful. Anyway, this is the trump on my wall i'm 

[00:14:58] Taylor Jones: glad you're showing this one because i've completely forgotten about it when I was going through the selection for you yeah, this was done in 2015 And, uh, historical cartoon, obviously needing some explanation, because of the Know Nothing Party, which, um, uh, I think, I'm trying to think now, was it Millard Fillmore who ran as the Know Nothing Party, but they were kind of professing ignorance on, slavery on, immigration, everything else.

[00:15:21] Daryl Cagle: And that worked. 

[00:15:22] Taylor Jones: Yes, and again, the I guess you blocked out the theme or maybe that wasn't in the original. but the theme was, it's above the vulture, which was, and it was done in, I forget what type, I put it in a typeface was, and tonight we're going to party like it's 1856.

[00:15:34] Daryl Cagle: Boy, Taylor, you really do need discussion in a history class. Okay, he's like, 

[00:15:39] Rick McKee: beautiful, beautiful drawing, Taylor. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. 

[00:15:43] Daryl Cagle: I like the eyebrows. Yeah. So here you have Trump and Putin. Trump thinks, oof, Russia's got talent, am I right? And Putin thinks, he gets elected, this is going to be so easy.

[00:15:54] Daryl Cagle: This was, this is an oldie when Putin was doing his election interference. 

[00:15:59] Rick McKee: That's great. That's really, that's really beautiful Taylor. Well, you know, Trump said that he was the apple of Putin's eye recently. Yeah, he actually said that. What's the... He said he was the apple of Putin's eye 

[00:16:15] Daryl Cagle: You like to draw trump drooling 

[00:16:16] Taylor Jones: I did then I kind of stopped doing that but early on I did that all the time 

[00:16:20] Daryl Cagle: All right, so here you've got uh 

[00:16:22] Rick McKee: Yeah, you 

[00:16:25] Daryl Cagle: you're very consistent about the drool early on I 

[00:16:28] Taylor Jones: gave up on it mostly what what 

[00:16:30] Daryl Cagle: made you give 

[00:16:31] Taylor Jones: up Oh, because because people kept asking me about it.

[00:16:34] Taylor Jones: I said, well, you know, and plus there's so many old drooling politicians now, I guess I could do them all that way.

[00:16:39] Daryl Cagle: Well, I thought this was a nice one. And you got Mike Pence as his lapdog, but Mike Pence is kind of pushed back a little bit. Back in his lapdog days. Yeah. 

[00:16:49] Rick McKee: Early that day. Yeah. He's, he's trying to be president now, uh, decided to say 

[00:16:52] Daryl Cagle: some things. So you've got, Trump's boys. One looks to be a storm trooper Goosestepping, and the other one, Don Jr.

[00:17:01] Daryl Cagle: Is, serving Trump stakes and, Trump Trump wine. My 

[00:17:05] Taylor Jones: goodness. Actually, Neither my Ivanka or my Melania are particularly good, in my opinion. No, I disagree with that. I think they're great. They're both good. I've done better, but anyway, thank 

[00:17:15] Daryl Cagle: you. Okay, here you've got Humpty Trumpty sat on a wall, or was it steel slats?

[00:17:21] Daryl Cagle: A fence? Or nothing at all? Concertina wire? Concrete barriers all laid end to end? Twas a perverse way to make America great again. Well, that's a lovely cartoon. He's sitting on the border wall with Mexico. 

[00:17:34] Taylor Jones: I think that, um, not only Humpty Dumpty, but a number of, Sir John Tenniel's illustrations for Alice in Wonderland.

[00:17:41] Taylor Jones: they've informed a number of my cartoons over the years. I'm sure they have, you know, they have for a lot of cartoonists. The Humpty Dumpty thing never, goes old, really. 

[00:17:47] Daryl Cagle: Okay. Here you've got Trump with Kim Jong Un. Trump says, See, I gave Kim one of my ties. And Kim thinks, or as I call it, America's path to capitulation.

[00:18:01] Rick McKee: That's a great, that's a great Kim Jong Un. That's great. 

[00:18:04] Taylor Jones: He's 

[00:18:05] Rick McKee: fun to do. Yeah, his hair, his hair is just ridiculous. 

[00:18:08] Taylor Jones: So many world leaders, Trump among them, are famous for their hair. Was it Margaret Thatcher? Ronald Reagan. Boris Johnson. Oh yeah. Boris Johnson. And, not included here.

[00:18:16] Taylor Jones: I drew a cartoon with, Trump holding Boris Johnson up, Boris Johnson is a, a big furry dog. and it was titled, dogs Who Looked Like their owners. But it seems like that's a, that's a thing, you know, if you become a big world leader, you gotta have a, you gotta be known for your hair.

[00:18:32] Daryl Cagle: Okay. Here we've got Trump, looking at his phone and Jared coming in with books, China policy, Reinventing Government, Opioid Epidemic, Mideast Peace, The Wall. Trump says being president's a dirty job, Jared, but somebody has got to do it. And, it looks like, Jared is doing the job of being president.

[00:18:50] Taylor Jones: Well, that was kind of a, that was early on in Trump's administration. That was a kind of a rap against, against Jared. That Trump's delegating anything hard to people other than himself. 

[00:18:59] Daryl Cagle: Very disturbing to think that anything was delegated to Jared. 

[00:19:03] Taylor Jones: That's true. 

[00:19:04] Ed Wexler: I've never seen a better Jared cartoon.

[00:19:06] Rick McKee: Thank 

[00:19:06] Daryl Cagle: you. Thank you. That's a wonderful one. Well, of 

[00:19:08] Taylor Jones: course, this is, uh, this, this was the famous, Sharpie incident after. hurricane. Um, you know which hurricane it was? I'm here in Florida, so I should remember. it's the one that plowed into Mexico Beach, I think, in the panhandle.

[00:19:20] Taylor Jones: And, Trump came up with his own map. with a Sharpie. And he made the one, the big loop up toward the top. Oh, right, right. That was Alabama. Yeah. And, I know a lot of cartoonists did the thing with the Sharpie. So I decided to actually just do a regular caricature drawing and scribble it with sharpie.

[00:19:36] Taylor Jones: And by the way, that scribbling was the hardest thing to do because I had to make it work. It could have been, it could have gone wrong. So you 

[00:19:43] Daryl Cagle: didn't draw that on an overlay or in your computer. You drew it with a sharpie 

[00:19:47] Taylor Jones: on your... Right on them. I had to kind of plot it out in my mind and do Very little bit of pencil sketching over it. I couldn't really follow it too closely because you can't, it wouldn't work if you just couldn't follow those scribbly lines, you know, 

[00:19:59] Rick McKee: It's Russian 

[00:20:00] Taylor Jones: roulette cartooning. Yeah, exactly. So it worked, fortunately, I think.

[00:20:03] Taylor Jones: And, it was fun. 

[00:20:04] Daryl Cagle: So gentlemen, here we've got, president Washington, Roosevelt, Jefferson, and Lincoln, and. says, Hey guys, in a word, how would you describe Donald J. Trump? Washington says liar. FDR says charlatan. Jefferson says ignorant and Lincoln says ass. 

[00:20:22] Rick McKee: All excellent. Thank you. Yeah, those are 

[00:20:24] Daryl Cagle: great. That's fun. Here you have, Trump the bird getting fed a bug by the mama bird. Parasitic Trump bird. Trumpus americanus. The eggs of the aggressive, fast growing Trump bird are deposited in the nests of unsuspecting species, which rear it at the expense of their own chicks. Oh, he's a 

[00:20:45] Rick McKee: bad one. He's 

[00:20:45] Taylor Jones: a bad bird, yeah. 

[00:20:47] Rick McKee: That's good. But I know, Taylor, Taylor, you love the, uh, the nature illustrations.

[00:20:51] Taylor Jones: Well, yeah, I think it's fun. 

[00:20:52] Daryl Cagle: I'm always telling Taylor that he should make every cartoon he draws a bird cartoon. Because you, you can't get enough birds.

[00:21:00] Daryl Cagle: And you know, so many of our cartoons are just, discussion cartoons. lots of them are, old couple sitting in front of the TV kind of cartoons. And why can't those just always be birds? There's no reason for them to not be birds. 

[00:21:14] Taylor Jones: You're right, Daryl, and I thought of doing nothing but bird cartoons for a month or two.

[00:21:20] Taylor Jones: I mean, I have to say, I, it won't be, it wouldn't be 100% birds. I like drawing primates too, occasionally lizards, anyway, we've, we've had this discussion before. 

[00:21:28] Daryl Cagle: People love 

[00:21:29] Taylor Jones: birds. I, well, they do.

[00:21:31] Daryl Cagle: Here you got Trump with the Kool Aid and he says to the Republican leaders, just be quiet and drink this. They do drink the Kool Aid. 

[00:21:39] Taylor Jones: I don't know if anybody tried to make the top of the little orange hair there with the ice cubes. 

[00:21:43] Rick McKee: thought it was like a reflective 

[00:21:44] Taylor Jones: thing. And I was trying to go exact regarding the ice 

[00:21:48] Daryl Cagle: cube.

[00:21:48] Daryl Cagle: one thing that we notice is that the conservative cartoonists tend to just not draw Trump.

[00:21:54] Daryl Cagle: It just doesn't come out of their pen. I was thinking what, uh, different, podcast we would have today if I invited a conservative cartoonist on. I kind of enjoy Having conversations between people that don't really disagree because the conversation tends to be more fun. We can get into more depth and discuss more things instead of just the, same old, friction.

[00:22:16] Daryl Cagle: Well, you know, it's weird. 

[00:22:17] Rick McKee: I mean, for years you introduced me as your conservative 

[00:22:21] Daryl Cagle: cartoonist. For years you were a conservative cartoonist. And I still 

[00:22:25] Rick McKee: consider myself to be conservative. It's just that this conservative movement... Has 

[00:22:29] Daryl Cagle: moved on to crazy town and I didn't go with them. I still consider myself 

[00:22:34] Rick McKee: relatively conservative.

[00:22:35] Rick McKee: I draw a lot of Biden 

[00:22:36] Daryl Cagle: cartoons. I'm just not this kind of, 

[00:22:38] Rick McKee: whatever this kind of conservative 

[00:22:40] Taylor Jones: is. Well, it's not really conservatism, don't you think? It's kind of, it's something else, you know? It's 

[00:22:44] Daryl Cagle: Trumpism is all it is. Liberals, don't like Biden too. That's right. Liberals draw Biden cartoons.

[00:22:49] Daryl Cagle: It's just the, the conservatives that edit themselves like that. 

[00:22:53] Rick McKee: I don't know if I... Well, 

[00:22:54] Taylor Jones: you know, Daryl, I've said this before, so I'm repeating myself from an earlier podcast, but as I see it, this is very general speaking, but liberals, you can say, liberals satirize, conservatives demonize, at least in modern age.

[00:23:04] Taylor Jones: And, liberal cartoonists went after LBJ, they certainly went after Clinton. We're not trying to prop anything up, whereas I think a lot of conservative cartoonists, Rick excepted, are trying to, they're trying to protect something.

[00:23:14] Rick McKee: it's become more of a cult than a political party movement. 

[00:23:18] Ed Wexler: It's the way Trump argues a point - he doesn't argue a point, he delegitimizes

[00:23:24] Ed Wexler: his, his opponent or whatever he's against . 

[00:23:26] Daryl Cagle: Okay, Taylor, tell us about George Washington with this cancer on his presidency of, Trump growing out of his cheek saying, "You're fired". And, uh, again, drooling. Of course the cancer on the presidency was what, John Dean said at the Watergate hearings about Nixon. 

[00:23:43] Taylor Jones: Well, I, you know, I, I enjoy when I can. I don't make, in getting historical with cartoons, getting historical references. 

[00:23:51] Ed Wexler: Invoke history. 

[00:23:53] Taylor Jones: I think it's important to do that and, not to think of, oy, sorry about these things, I don't know how to stop this.

[00:23:58] Taylor Jones: maybe it'll end soon. 

[00:23:59] Daryl Cagle: You know, there is a, a phenomenon that we tracked quite closely, during the Trump years of editors not wanting to print Trump cartoons at all.

[00:24:07] Daryl Cagle: and I send, the top ten cartoons every week to you guys, which end up being about half of the cartoons that are reprinted and, just dominate all the other cartoons. And you have noticed, I'm sure, through the course of the years, how the Trump cartoons just didn't appear there.

[00:24:23] Daryl Cagle: they really were depressed, in the number of reprints. And, editors also don't like, Ku Klux Klan hoods. They don't like any type of bodily fluids, including drool. they don't like skin conditions. they don't like blood. They don't like poop. you know, all of those things are things that cartoonists love.

[00:24:43] Daryl Cagle: we love bodily fluids. We love poop. You know, 

[00:24:46] Rick McKee: you think about. How far we've come from the things that, you know, like Herblock and Oliphant used to draw. I'm talking about things that I can't even mention on this podcast that were printed in American newspapers. we just, we've, you know, we've moved so far away to that, to whether...

[00:25:02] Rick McKee: And, uh, sports cartoons, that's all the 

[00:25:06] Daryl Cagle: editors want. Well, here you have a growth and, spittle. I'm sure this didn't get printed. 

[00:25:11] Taylor Jones: Nowhere, because that's too bad if so, because after all, Dean said it. And, uh, I'm just referring back to history. And, of course, Trump along with his mentor, uh, Roy Cohn.

[00:25:22] Taylor Jones: and people like Roger Ailes, founder of Fox, they were great believers that Nixon had been done a terrible wrong, that he had done nothing wrong really. And in a sense, Roger Ailes, Roy Cohn and Trump have all been on the quest to kind of change all that. And if they can't , 

[00:25:39] Taylor Jones: I 

[00:25:39] Rick McKee: think you meant Roger Stone and throw him in 

[00:25:41] Rick McKee: there as well.

[00:25:42] Taylor Jones: Well, exactly right. I would, I would hate to think that editors are so squeamish, so afraid that they're going to offend some delicate readership.

[00:25:51] Taylor Jones: Because of a cartoon like this. That's sad if it's, if it's really true, Daryl. 

[00:25:56] Daryl Cagle: here's another one of yours that I'm also sure didn't get printed, Just because they don't like the Hitler references and they don't like calling, mainstream politicians Hitler.

[00:26:06] Daryl Cagle: and they don't like the spittle. 

[00:26:08] Rick McKee: It's a great image, 

[00:26:09] Rick McKee: though, 

[00:26:09] Taylor Jones: . Thank you, Daryl. I think you need to fire me. But, um, 

[00:26:15] Ed Wexler: At least the spittle's not green in this one. 

[00:26:17] Taylor Jones: this predates the little hands thing. This was done in 2015. it was afterwards, That the small hands became a common reference. 

[00:26:23] Daryl Cagle: Okay. Ed we're moving on to you. Here is Loser Trump. This is a wonderful cartoon.

[00:26:28] Ed Wexler: I did one with the typography, yeah, I did a handful of those word cartoons. I think I did Chaos. I don't remember the other ones right now, but I had some fun with that one..

[00:26:43] Daryl Cagle: Well, this is great. There's, no, bodily fluids. There's no Hitler, no KKK hoods, but you can make the point without all of that. 

[00:26:54] Ed Wexler: I like to try not to offend if at all possible. 

[00:26:57] Daryl Cagle: Ed, you've got Trump holding Uncle Sam out the window. Uncle Sam, identifiable only by his pants and spats. And, Trump says, nice country you have here.

[00:27:08] Daryl Cagle: Be a shame if anything happened to it. Great cartoon. 

[00:27:12] Ed Wexler: Thanks. I don't, I don't remember the reason I did this, but, uh. 

[00:27:14] Rick McKee: What reason do you need Ed? 

[00:27:16] Taylor Jones: Well, that's pretty much every day. Never reason. 

[00:27:18] Daryl Cagle: Yeah. It's an evergreen, it's another one for you to repost .

[00:27:21] Rick McKee: But that's another, uh, pop culture reference.

[00:27:23] Rick McKee: Is it not Ed? 

[00:27:24] Ed Wexler: What do you mean?

[00:27:25] Ed Wexler: it was a movie where somebody th threw dangled somebody out the window. Wasn't it 

[00:27:28] Taylor Jones: Michael Jackson dangled the baby? 

[00:27:30] Rick McKee: Or if anything happened to it's, uh, 

[00:27:33] Daryl Cagle: That's a Mafia thing to say. It's a generic Mafia 

[00:27:37] Rick McKee: thing. Where did that come from? Did that come from a specific film or just something everybody said?

[00:27:42] Taylor Jones: Everybody said that. Oh, this is great, Ed. 

[00:27:45] Ed Wexler: Thank you. Thank you. This is, this is obviously after, Pelosi's husband, got attacked. This is the second cartoon I've done of Trump in bed. And I like putting the hair, the bobby pins 

[00:27:57] Ed Wexler: in his 

[00:27:57] Ed Wexler: hair. 

[00:27:59] Daryl Cagle: This is a very harsh cartoon, really, dreaming fondly of the hammers, injuring Pelosi's husband. 

[00:28:05] Taylor Jones: But even without it, it's just stupidity, you know, just thinking, dreaming stupid stuff. 

[00:28:12] Rick McKee: Yeah, that's a, that's a great, that's a great, loose style, though, and I really like that.

[00:28:16] Rick McKee: Oh, thanks. 

[00:28:17] Daryl Cagle: You know, hard hitting cartoon. So here is Trump as, Raid, spraying, kills, votes, dead, vote repellent. Uh, that's fun. That's great. 

[00:28:27] Ed Wexler: You know, uh, as an aside, I actually worked on some of the animated commercials for Raid. In my, in the 80s. Raid! 

[00:28:35] Daryl Cagle: I love those Raid commercials.

[00:28:36] Daryl Cagle: You know, they look like Jack Davis designed them. 

[00:28:39] Ed Wexler: The Raid characters were designed by, Bob Kurtz. 

[00:28:42] Daryl Cagle: Oh, Bob Kurtz. Yes. He did the studio, Kurtz and Friends. He did the dinosaurs, right? The gas tank? Yes. Yes. Great. Oh, he's, he's great. He's great. Yeah. I didn't know he drew like Jack Davis. 

[00:28:57] Ed Wexler: He's a versatile artist, guy. . 

[00:29:01] Daryl Cagle: Don't you think they looked Jack Davis y? Yeah, I thought so. Yeah, they 

[00:29:06] Ed Wexler: do. They do Mad Magazine y. Yeah. Well, I love those. They were very fun to draw in motion.

[00:29:16] Daryl Cagle: I didn't know you worked on those. That's fun. 

[00:29:18] Taylor Jones: Yeah, that's great. I love you've got a kind of a Grinch thing going in the Trump face as well. A Grinch grin. 

[00:29:24] Rick McKee: Mean and sweet at the same time. 

[00:29:26] Daryl Cagle: Ed the orange of the can is just, a delight. Okay, this is, uh, one that you just drew with, uh, Trump on the golf course.

[00:29:34] Daryl Cagle: He says, I was too busy to sort through the boxes. I'm a busy guy as he's out golfing every day. 

[00:29:41] Rick McKee: this is a favorite of mine, because there's two Trump caricatures in it. I got the caricature of his, his 

[00:29:46] Daryl Cagle: big butt. That's awesome. Wonderful stuff. Thank you. Here we have Trump being carried away, uh, on a little GOP elephant, but he is very big and heavy.

[00:29:55] Daryl Cagle: He says, "Follow me" in the wrong direction, and the GOP elephant says, "Getting tired of carrying you, bub". You know, this is not a broadly held view in the GOP.

[00:30:05] Ed Wexler: I wonder why. He's not helping. 

[00:30:07] Daryl Cagle: A little wishful thinking in this cartoon. I think, 

[00:30:11] Rick McKee: Daryl, that it's not a publicly held view in the GOP.

[00:30:17] Rick McKee: I think your establishment GOP wishes he would go away, but they will not say it publicly. 

[00:30:22] Daryl Cagle: So, big difference between the establishment and the grassroots? That's what I think.

[00:30:27] Daryl Cagle: Okay. here we have, Trump saying, I plan on running. Away from indictments, as he speeds along, leaving only his bobby pins behind.

[00:30:36] Ed Wexler: Another animation thing. 

[00:30:38] Taylor Jones: What I'm thinking, is it Jackie Gleason or Dennis the Menace? In terms of running. 

[00:30:42] Rick McKee: That's a Jackie Gleason thing on the left, that's for sure.

[00:30:44] Rick McKee: Yeah, 

[00:30:45] Daryl Cagle: it's Jackie Gleason posture. 

[00:30:47] Taylor Jones: Yeah, right. 

[00:30:48] Ed Wexler: And a way, we go. Right. 

[00:30:51] Daryl Cagle: Again, you have to explain who Jackie Gleason is, because this is for high school. 

[00:30:57] Taylor Jones: Well, not to the readership, it's so old in newspapers. 

[00:31:00] Rick McKee: That's only a 70 year reference. What is that? 

[00:31:04] Daryl Cagle: Only 70 years. That's true, it's the late 50s. Another 

[00:31:10] Ed Wexler: reference to the character Witch Hazel with the spinning bobby pins on the zip out.

[00:31:18] Daryl Cagle: I don't know Witch Hazel. 

[00:31:20] Ed Wexler: It's a Warner Brothers cartoon thing. This character would go. And she would just leave a couple of bobby pins spinning in the air.

[00:31:29] Rick McKee: I'm gonna have to look that up. 

[00:31:31] Daryl Cagle: Oh, I remember that! This is, this is a podcast for Grandpa. 

[00:31:37] Taylor Jones: Well, that's how the newspaper readers are, Daryl.

[00:31:42] Daryl Cagle: We do know our audience, don't we? Aren't we all grandpas here? 

[00:31:47] Rick McKee: Not yet. Not yet. 

[00:31:48] Daryl Cagle: So, here you go, with Trump about to hit the fan. 

[00:31:52] Ed Wexler: Well, this, this one, this one definitely went crazy viral. 

[00:31:56] Daryl Cagle: Yeah? 

[00:31:56] Ed Wexler: Yeah. It did on, well, it did on social media for sure. 

[00:31:59] Daryl Cagle: Well, it's a wonderful wordless cartoon. 

[00:32:01] Rick McKee: Listen, it's a great image, Ed.

[00:32:04] Rick McKee: Thanks. Didn't take that long.

[00:32:06] Daryl Cagle: All right, explain this one to us, Ed. 

[00:32:07] Ed Wexler: This is my most recent one. I did this the other day. 

[00:32:10] Daryl Cagle: Well, you've got Trump playing the victim and he's holding an orange card in front of his face with a sad face drawn on it, with all the people pointing their fingers at him because he's the accused.

[00:32:21] Daryl Cagle: is this a sad crying? Drawing with a sharpie because he's hiding that he's not really sad. 

[00:32:27] Ed Wexler: He's correcting everybody's impression. He wants everybody to know that, he's, he's just shocked by all the recent accusations, I think it's my second or third Sharpie cartoon. 

[00:32:36] Daryl Cagle: He's putting on a face of being sad when he's not sad.

[00:32:40] Ed Wexler: Yeah, for sure. and I was able to make his face orange. I just like being able to do that. this cartoon it's layered with symbols, the symbols of the fingers and Trump covering his face.

[00:32:49] Ed Wexler: And 

[00:32:50] Taylor Jones: The arm in the top right is especially well drawn. Arm and hand. 

[00:32:56] Rick McKee: You don't know

[00:33:00] Daryl Cagle: how hard it is to draw hands. 

[00:33:01] Ed Wexler: Hands are really hard. 

[00:33:03] Taylor Jones: They're fun if you do it right. You're always pleased, you know. I'm pleased with myself today. I do hands well. 

[00:33:08] Rick McKee: Hands are hard. 

[00:33:11] Daryl Cagle: Okay, gentlemen, here we have, a toddler Trump, dressed in turn of the century toddler clothes. Crying and stamping and saying, but I'm president, I'm president, no fair.

[00:33:25] Ed Wexler: Little Lord Fauntleroy. Grew up with a privileged existence. 

[00:33:31] Daryl Cagle: And Grandpa, who is Little Lord Fauntleroy?

[00:33:35] Ed Wexler: Isn't that from the 30's? Yeah. 

[00:33:42] Rick McKee: A hundred year reference now. 

[00:33:43] Ed Wexler: Yeah, maybe. 

[00:33:44] Ed Wexler: This was inspired by the Marx Brothers, uh, Harpo stealing the silverware. 

[00:33:51] Daryl Cagle: Oh, that's fun. You want to explain who, uh, Harpo is? 

[00:33:56] Rick McKee: The Marx brothers were a comedy trio in the early part of the 20th century.

[00:34:02] Daryl Cagle: Well, this is fun. So you've got, Trump with the, Silverware dropping out of his sleeve. You don't see his head, but you see all of them that you need to and it says missing White House items found at Mar a Lago with the pile of silverware that he's sneaking out. This was a 1930s movie trope where people would steal the silverware because they're all poor but they would always have these interactions with things that rich people would do because movies were about rich people versus poor people and One of the things that you would do is steal the silverware.

[00:34:35] Daryl Cagle: And so This is this is for Ed a Marx Brothers trope

[00:34:40] Ed Wexler: an Ed trope

[00:34:41] Daryl Cagle: Okay

[00:34:41] Daryl Cagle: Kind of said 

[00:34:43] Rick McKee: Rick's handcuffs 

[00:34:45] Daryl Cagle: Yes, this is a small hands in handcuffs on Trump's back. And, it's wonderful because you know, everything that's going on with, not having to draw a very explicit thing to describe it, the small hands in handcuffs. I assume this was when, he was booked recently.

[00:35:01] Ed Wexler: I was just making fun of him possibly being arrested and, the small hand, big butt thing. 

[00:35:07] Daryl Cagle: This was before he was arrested. 

[00:35:09] Taylor Jones: It was before he was arrested, yeah. Ed, can I ask you, rather than just assume that there's also a thought that because of the small hands, obviously able to get out of those cuffs, that he may end up slipping out of this whole thing, was that also intentional?

[00:35:21] Taylor Jones: No, that was just 

[00:35:22] Rick McKee: the result of, you know, that's, that's how it, that's what it looked like after I laid it down on paper, but even though it didn't make real sense, it made cartoon sense. But in a cartoon like that, Ed, and I think probably, you know, you've done this long enough that you're doing it subconsciously, but, but readers like to be treated intelligently.

[00:35:39] Rick McKee: You didn't need to show his face. You didn't need to show. his hair and all that you showed the bare minimum, and it's plenty enough for readers who are smart and readers like to be treated like they're smart. They get it. You one of the good things about having Trump as president is he's made of such fundamental symbols and colors.

[00:36:00] Rick McKee: You know, he's got his own palette. You know, he's got his thing, the yellow hair and the big stupid hair and... 

[00:36:05] Daryl Cagle: Well, he wears the 

[00:36:05] Rick McKee: same color tie and he wears a blue suit and a red tie and you can count on that. Yeah, that's deliberate. I'm sure it's deliberate. 

[00:36:11] Daryl Cagle: Well, the best cartoons have no words and have the least symbols and don't have labels

[00:36:16] Daryl Cagle: Okay, gentlemen, that's that sounds like a good place to stop it. Everybody come back to the next Caglecast Remember to subscribe and like wherever you're watching this, especially on YouTube.com/@caglecast. We would appreciate that and we'll see you on the next Caglecast. I think we're going to do a number of these favorite cartoons about trump Caglecasts because, the cartoonists have lots of Trump cartoons and, now's the time to, do some Trump bashing.

[00:36:39] Daryl Cagle: So thank you everybody and I will see you next time.